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hackedX99
Omega Member
628 Posts |
 Posted - 10/26/2009 : 03:16:53 AM
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Ok , I installed the fax windows xp component for faxing thru your computer.
it is using the device name
BCM V.92 56K modem
Is this the built in dialup modem?
If so then running a telephone wire from it to a telephone jack should be all that is needed to send a fax? Yes/No.
I am going to test it because I think my friend has a fax machine I can send it to.
Curious to see if I can get this thing to work without a fax machine.
I.e just beable to have people send me a fax that goes to my computer and me to beable to send a fax to somebody.
Seem like it should work wondering if anybody has tried it with out a fax machine or any specific hardware? If so does it work?
This site seems to lead me to believe it will
http://www.geckoandfly.com/2009/03/12/microsoft-fax-software-how-to-send-free-fax-online-via-computer-and-email/
Thanks again.
This would sure make it a cheap way to send/recv fax's without the need to buy expensive fax machines. |
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dualdflipflop
Moderator
USA
7368 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 3:06:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Ok , I installed the fax windows xp component for faxing thru your computer.
it is using the device name
BCM V.92 56K modem
As long as the hardware supports fax, you should be good. A quick look at the manual acknowledges the support, but you can never trust consumer marketing material.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Is this the built in dialup modem?
Could be... what computer is this? I've seen this model number thrown on PCI cards as well. Best thing to do is get a real modem, not a soft one. Soft-modems rely too heavily on the drivers doing all the business, and only have enough hardware to adapt the physical layer to the computer. Except for some Macs that I've setup as Fax servers, I generally would go with a serial modem for this gig.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
If so then running a telephone wire from it to a telephone jack should be all that is needed to send a fax? Yes/No.
Typically.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
I am going to test it because I think my friend has a fax machine I can send it to.
Have fun... but remember, unless it's a business, most people don't dedicate a line to fax machines anymore. Most people just pick up the phone, if it sounds like a machine trying to handshake, turn on the fax machine.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Curious to see if I can get this thing to work without a fax machine.
I.e just beable to have people send me a fax that goes to my computer and me to beable to send a fax to somebody.
I do it all the time. I have a dedicated machine which sits on the network as a shared printer that just faxes. If it receives a fax, it sends an E-Mail with a PDF attached. I've wanted to attempt OCRing the PDF and try to rip out any names or numbers, but because people suck at faxing in general, and the limited faxes received, there's really no need. It's easier just to have an IMAP mail account on the secretary machine which allows them to forward to the appropriate party.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Seem like it should work wondering if anybody has tried it with out a fax machine or any specific hardware? If so does it work?
I prefer using old G4 Mirror towers. The USB modem unlike the older serial modems that came standard on previous machines has Caller ID, which I just have a script attach the source number to the filename along with the time stamp and send it right along. Internal Zip drive that came with it ensures a backup of all files that come through. I've never needed to switch the disk out yet. The G4 is overkill for the amount of use it gets. It's a little sluggish as a desktop system running Leopard, but as a fax server... nobody knows the difference. Costs about as much as a fax machine too (Okay, a little more on power consumption)!
Here's a link to start you off with Mac Faxing. It's stupid simple, and can be networked over Bonjour Printing support with other computers. Really cool stuff actually! Teaching your coworkers how to do it is a snap as well... now, if only they'd use fax.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Thanks again.
This would sure make it a cheap way to send/recv fax's without the need to buy expensive fax machines.
It feels great to save on paper. However, this is a few years too late... faxing is sort of dead, unless you're in the corporate environment with a lot of old freaks who don't know how to send a document to be signed over E-Mail. It's funny... most of those people still never use my setup. Who cares, I had fun building it out.
On the flip side, most all in one printers with the scanners, have fax capability. For a couple extra bucks, it's kind of a better deal. Especially if their printer drivers that allow you to fax. |
P.S. This is what part of the alphabet would look like with Q and R eliminated. |
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hackedX99
Omega Member
628 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 5:35:46 PM
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Cool,
I don't have a mac computer right now.
But as for the V.92 modem it is the only one the microsoft fax software can use their is no other in the drop down box. I looked and this is the dialup modem that came with the dell machine.
The machine is Dell™ Dimension™ 8100 System I bought it around 2003 or so.
Curious to no what this modems purpose is if it cann't fax?
If it was for old dialup internet then it should work? yes/no
I am unclear with the inner workings of a dialup modem?
Like does it modulate the data at the correct frequency ,...etc etc
analog/digital issues ....
Maybe your more familar with these built in modems and how they function. It would be nice to use this card in some way since I use everything else in a computer.
I am also curious what the protocal for sending a fax down a telephone line is? (like caller id is sent between the first/second 90volt AC 20 Hz ring which is send digital superimposed on to the analog signal with PWM )
Because if I new this I could right a program to send small fax's to peoples computers kind of like a txtmsg service. :)
Provided this modem puts data down the telephone line at the correct frequency or sampleing rate ,...etc etc (don't know if this would be an issue since when it gets to the phone company's switch it's their job)
txtmsg could utilize bluetooth to get it to the mobile phone or a java app that opens a socket and connects back to the server to retrive the fax. You could be like a txtmsg provider without an GSM modem how cool.
O my dreams ahahahah
Thanks
This is really cool stuff
O , I have been talking about this on allaboutcircuits in this thread if your interested. You may already know some of this stuff
about CCITT Group3 fax protocol. For sending / receiveing a fax kind of like a min TCP/IP protocal.
http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?p=180677 |
Edited by - hackedX99 on 10/26/2009 10:18:22 PM |
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dualdflipflop
Moderator
USA
7368 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 12:28:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Cool,
I don't have a mac computer right now.
Not a good excuse... You can pick one up just to have for cheese-dicking around with for cheap or free if you know where to dive. IMHO, you can't be a tech guy if you don't have at least one Windows, one Mac, and one Linux install at your disposal. Preferably different boxes... but can be the same. There's just too much knowledge out there, and to deny yourself the access is criminal.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
But as for the V.92 modem it is the only one the microsoft fax software can use their is no other in the drop down box. I looked and this is the dialup modem that came with the dell machine.
I really haven't faxed on Windows since the 3.1 days.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Curious to no what this modems purpose is if it cann't fax?
Dial-up access to the Internet through a PPP Internet Service Provider. There are still many BBS (Bulletin Board System) with dial-in access. Occasionally when I need to, I provide both to myself and friends.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
If it was for old dialup internet then it should work? yes/no
For faxing? Not necessarily... as stated in your other thread in the other forum (traitor!), fax transmissions are on a completely separate model to dial-up access.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
I am unclear with the inner workings of a dialup modem?
Like does it modulate the data at the correct frequency ,...etc etc
analog/digital issues ....
This looks like a job for Wikipedia!
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Maybe your more familar with these built in modems and how they function. It would be nice to use this card in some way since I use everything else in a computer.
Not really that useful in 2009. Read more about softmodems to get an idea of what they're capable.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
I am also curious what the protocal for sending a fax down a telephone line is? (like caller id is sent between the first/second 90volt AC 20 Hz ring which is send digital superimposed on to the analog signal with PWM )
Because if I new this I could right a program to send small fax's to peoples computers kind of like a txtmsg service. :)
CID is a service, not a function. There are slick things you can do with CID but you may need to read up on the standard. I'm not fully versed in it.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
txtmsg could utilize bluetooth to get it to the mobile phone or a java app that opens a socket and connects back to the server to retrive the fax. You could be like a txtmsg provider without an GSM modem how cool.
O my dreams ahahahah
Not really sure where you're going... but keep dreaming.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Thanks
This is really cool stuff
O , I have been talking about this on allaboutcircuits in this thread if your interested. You may already know some of this stuff
about CCITT Group3 fax protocol. For sending / receiveing a fax kind of like a min TCP/IP protocal.
http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?p=180677
The proper acronym for the standards commission is ITU.T not CCITT, it changed around 1993. Faxing is much different than TCP/IP by the way. |
P.S. This is what part of the alphabet would look like with Q and R eliminated. |
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hackedX99
Omega Member
628 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 02:03:02 AM
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I have read the wiki's and other stuff.
Basically the modulation and builtin functionality are complicated and their are not many good references on the inner workings of them.
Most of these modems are Os specific (since the drivers are written only for a specific target os ...etc etc )
At the most basic level
Though they did say they where basically soundcards that had ADC/DAC and a phone line jack. So it stands to reason if the fax software sends the fax data correctly to the V.92 modem then the modem should beable to send it correctly out the RJ11 jack.
Only issue I am wondering about is if the modem will modulate the data in an equivalent way such that the switch at the telephone company transmits the fax data to the fax machine and that the fax machine can understand this. (i/e it's not mistaken as interference...etc )
The guy on the other site wants me to use the hyperterm program and issue AT+FCLASS=2 in some way and if the modem response ok then it will be fax capable. However I don't know where/how to do it in hyperterminal? |
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dualdflipflop
Moderator
USA
7368 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 4:22:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Basically the modulation and builtin functionality are complicated and their are not many good references on the inner workings of them.
Most of these modems are Os specific (since the drivers are written only for a specific target os ...etc etc )
Within specifications like V.17 (You'll notice the V. before a number) you will see all the processes required for everything from handshaking, keying, duplexing, modulation type, signal requirements, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
At the most basic level
Though they did say they where basically soundcards that had ADC/DAC and a phone line jack. So it stands to reason if the fax software sends the fax data correctly to the V.92 modem then the modem should beable to send it correctly out the RJ11 jack.
Forget V.92, it's not a fax standard, the company just put that on the box because that's the most advanced data ITU standard the device supports. If it's a fax/modem (which I've already said it looks to be based on simple Google search), it can support a wide range of standards. Even if it's a soft-modem.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Only issue I am wondering about is if the modem will modulate the data in an equivalent way such that the switch at the telephone company transmits the fax data to the fax machine and that the fax machine can understand this. (i/e it's not mistaken as interference...etc )
All the modulation specs are taken care of during the handshake process of the connection. What switch? The telephone company takes no part in retransmitting fax data. It's just like a regular phone call to the phone company... just using two fax machines rather than human voice and ear.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
The guy on the other site wants me to use the hyperterm program and issue AT+FCLASS=2 in some way and if the modem response ok then it will be fax capable. However I don't know where/how to do it in hyperterminal?
If you're stuck on how to send command and data modes to the modem, you've got a lot of learning to do. Start with understanding what commands you can send to that modem, what compatibility it has (ie. Hayes), then learn how to use Hyperterminal. |
P.S. This is what part of the alphabet would look like with Q and R eliminated. |
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hackedX99
Omega Member
628 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2009 : 12:03:11 AM
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Ok , all the wires are hooked up correctly.
And I ran a wire from my V.92 modem to a phone jack.
I used hyperterminal to make a call
It works but I hear the person from the modem I cann't talk back to him and I cannot increase the sound. It's like their is a sound card builtin to the modem that doesn't have any ports to plug speakers in or a mic into. What the hell? Is their anyway to get the modems sound to go thru the computers sound card.
Haven't tried the fax yet but I am almost 100% sure it will work when I get the chance I will try to send/recieve from a friend that has a fax machine. |
Edited by - hackedX99 on 10/28/2009 12:05:38 AM |
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dualdflipflop
Moderator
USA
7368 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2009 : 02:33:43 AM
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That's a different type of modem. "Data/Voice/Fax Modem" which have sound interfaces. You can't just pipe sound from another source into a modem as far as I know. You'll know in Windows if your modem is a voice capable one if you see it in the driver list as a sound device as well as a modem. It should also show up in the mixer as a device in the sound preferences somewhere.
Most modems have speakerphone on the board. Mostly that is for the user to troubleshoot simple issues like if dial tone is present on the line, if there's a busy signal, if the number was dialed at all... That's why this is a familiar sound to people who've every accessed dial-up Internet.
Having voice features on a modem gives you potential capabilities such as software based voicemail system, using the computer to take calls for you from an address book on the system, I've even seen voice modulation software. On this page is a nice list of very good modems recommended for fax and voice. My advice however, stay away from softmodems for Voice support. There tends to be flow control issues, or Windows simply locks up. As I've stated before, softmodems suck... drivers suck, hardware is minimal, and there's little hope outside of Windows for using them. |
P.S. This is what part of the alphabet would look like with Q and R eliminated. |
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hackedX99
Omega Member
628 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2009 : 09:11:51 AM
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Well I do think this is a data/fax/voice modem.
I don't see anything under the sound , video , and game controllers in device manager. But some of the properties under the audio codecs
have telecomv, and DSP truespeach....etc
quote:
Most modems have speakerphone on the board
Well the modem I have goes into the PCI bus and only has 2 RJ11 jacks on it (those are its only input/output ports). So if speakerphone is builtin to the modem which I am sure it is their is no ports to plug into to access this sound. What good is it if you cann't get the audio from/to it to a speaker/mic. Maybe it is only meant to be an answering machine .... ???
One of the RJ11 jacks has a phone icon next to it. If that helps in anyway. Are their any application that sends the modems data from memory to the soundcards speakers and takes mic input to memory then to the modem. These are softmodems so they are mostly controlled by the driver software. And I am assuming the driver uses memory to store data to send to the modem. Wondering if you could write a program to do it using something like the TAPI or something...? At least maybe being able to hook into the driver using DDK or something to add more functionality?
Main Question
That is being able to get the data to and from the modem?
Also if I do up to try useing it for voice messaging is their some program/way of making it have a different greeting message based on the calling number. Something like caller id screening greeting messages...etc etc. First of all I have to figure out even how I can set it to do voice messageing ,...what programs ,...etc
If their is any away to write programs to send/receive data from the modem using TAPI or something that would be coooooool!!!!
Thanks for your input
Note I have tried hyperterminal , and dialer.exe both of which give the same affect noway to get the audio to/from mic/speakers ...etc
Although I can with dialer place an internet phone call instead of a regular phone call. And that works with my speakers/mic but then again we are really just using VOIP (sending udp sound packets to specific port ...etc not using the modem in anyway) . Plus if you use internet phone call then the other person must have dailer.exe running to recieve the call or something equivalently running that is compatible with dialer.exe which not many people have running anyway.
Stands to reason maybe the TAPI api has some answers maybe...
Cross my fingers! |
Edited by - hackedX99 on 10/28/2009 09:29:20 AM |
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dualdflipflop
Moderator
USA
7368 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2009 : 3:44:01 PM
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First off, before I start coming off sounding like a dick, I assure you... it's only because the level of some of your questions are slightly nooberish and sometimes make me wonder why I'm actually holding your hand in answering and not just directing you to read the f'ing manual.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Well I do think this is a data/fax/voice modem.
I don't see anything under the sound , video , and game controllers in device manager. But some of the properties under the audio codecs
have telecomv, and DSP truespeach....etc
According to Google, it is. Though, I wouldn't use it for voice as it's a softmodem.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Well the modem I have goes into the PCI bus and only has 2 RJ11 jacks on it (those are its only input/output ports). So if speakerphone is builtin to the modem which I am sure it is their is no ports to plug into to access this sound. What good is it if you cann't get the audio from/to it to a speaker/mic. Maybe it is only meant to be an answering machine .... ???
Yes, it's on the card, usually looks like a little Rat Shack buzzer. Typically it's black, usually has a hole or several. The diameter of a dime to a half dollar, and as high as about ten of them stacked or so. Just a speaker, not speakerphone, sorry for the confusion. Some cards with voice capabilities have actual 1/8" jacks for microphone and speaker.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
One of the RJ11 jacks has a phone icon next to it. If that helps in anyway.
It helps immensely if you want to plug in a plain old telephone into a chain so you can use it without splitting the line at the wall.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Are their any application that sends the modems data from memory to the soundcards speakers and takes mic input to memory then to the modem. These are softmodems so they are mostly controlled by the driver software. And I am assuming the driver uses memory to store data to send to the modem. Wondering if you could write a program to do it using something like the TAPI or something...? At least maybe being able to hook into the driver using DDK or something to add more functionality?
Not that I know of... as I bang my head against the table.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Main Question
That is being able to get the data to and from the modem?
When asking your "Main Question", shouldn't you put more preposition so as to allow me to decipher what it is you're referring to when you use words like "That" to start off your question. In other words, complete sentences, beginning-middle-end. Don't start your question in the middle of a thought.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Also if I do up to try useing it for voice messaging is their some program/way of making it have a different greeting message based on the calling number. Something like caller id screening greeting messages...etc etc. First of all I have to figure out even how I can set it to do voice messageing ,...what programs ,...etc
I'm starting to make the realization, you would probably have a lot more fun with something like an Asterisk VOIP project.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
If their is any away to write programs to send/receive data from the modem using TAPI or something that would be coooooool!!!!
If you say so.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
Thanks for your input
Note I have tried hyperterminal , and dialer.exe both of which give the same affect noway to get the audio to/from mic/speakers ...etc
Although I can with dialer place an internet phone call instead of a regular phone call. And that works with my speakers/mic but then again we are really just using VOIP (sending udp sound packets to specific port ...etc not using the modem in anyway) . Plus if you use internet phone call then the other person must have dailer.exe running to recieve the call or something equivalently running that is compatible with dialer.exe which not many people have running anyway.
Stands to reason maybe the TAPI api has some answers maybe...
Cross my fingers!
VOIP and Voice Modems are two different things. |
P.S. This is what part of the alphabet would look like with Q and R eliminated. |
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hackedX99
Omega Member
628 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2009 : 7:29:21 PM
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Ok , sorry about the way I am asking some of my questions.
I kind of learn sometimes by throwing out broad questions then diving into the research. (sometimes I get a little lazy sorry)
As for my V.92 modem it does successfuly send/recieve faxs to/from people. You can also set in the fax properties if you want it to automatically print to your printer. And if your printer is wireless or network ready it really gives the effect of having a fax machine when you really don't. Saves me a few hundred $.
Question still on my mind.
1)
Since my fax is not using a seperate line if I mistakenly pick up the phone and start talking/dialing when a fax is coming in/out. Will this screw the fax data with interference or noise or is the tones/voice not going to screw the fax? If it does then is their away to determine if it is a real fax or a phone call without picking up the phone or interfering with the fax data come/going out ?
Hopefully the answer is it won't screw it up.
I have tried with some faxes and nothing screwed it up so far wondering why ????? (maybe the frequency of the modulated data doesn't interfer with regular voice / dial tone/ 20hz to 20khz human sounds duno )
2)
Under the fax properties you can set the number of rings before the modem is used. However if I set the number of rings higher then the number of rings for my answering machine it will always go to the answering machine and the fax data will never be successful because the phone will never ring more then 4 times.
Also if I set the fax number of rings to something lower then the answering machine 4 rings then I will always get a message on my answering machine of the voice of the faxing data.
Though at least the fax will be sent and recieved successfully to/from the computer.
Is their any way to have this devices both plugged in on the same line without having a fax message on my answering machine or not able to fax because of the rings not getting passed the answering machine rings?????
If worst comes to worse I will just unplug the V.92 modem and only plug it in when somebody calls me first to tell me they are going to fax something to me. And I am definitely not paying for a second seperate line that is not an option.
Also in the fax properties you can even set it to automatically print the incoming faxes to a printer on your network.
As well as email it. COOOOOOOOOOOOL Stuff.
3)
Is their someway to send word documents , txt files , pdf ,...etc as faxes using only microsoft fax component that came with the os.
I know you can create a cover page pretty generally but it would be nice to attach or click on send to fax for these other file formats. Other then tiff. (maybe I am missing an option in the software I know you have been using it more then I do so maybe you would know better.)
Also if the above is not looking good then I have the ability to convert pdf ,doc ,...etc to and from tiff but I don't know where to put these into to have them send as a fax.
Like their is a folder for recieved tiff and also a sent folder
Like
C:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows NT\MSFax\Inbox
But I don't know what folder is the outbox or will automatically send the fax...
If all else fails I will look for some addtional software :( |
Edited by - hackedX99 on 10/28/2009 9:45:05 PM |
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dualdflipflop
Moderator
USA
7368 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2009 : 11:01:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
1)
Yes it can screw up. Good fax machines will rehandshake and request the information again. If it can't do that, it will continue to attempt handshaking until it times out.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
2)
This is why people who accept many faxes get a second line for their house. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Similarly, you can't let a fax accept calls and have an answering machine service too. With a single line, always have the sender call you to let you know to accept fax transmissions.
quote:
Originally posted by hackedX99
3)
I'm pretty sure you can have Windows treat faxing like a printer. I do it in Mac all the time, it would be stupid not to be able to fax any printable document. |
P.S. This is what part of the alphabet would look like with Q and R eliminated. |
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fax ?
